Five by Five | The Podcast for The ALPA Pilots of Frontier Airlines, We Hear You Loud and Clear

“[Negotiations are] a very complicated collection of moving parts that really nobody does alone. It takes a team.” 

-Capt. Phil Otis (UAL), Chair, ALPA National Collective Bargaining Committee 

 
In this episode of 5 by 5, we take a candid, behind-the-scenes look at what contract negotiations actually involve, and why outcomes hinge on far more than what happens in those moments across the table from management. Joined by ALPA Managing Attorney for Collective Bargaining Jeff Loesel and United Airlines Captain and ALPA National Collective Bargaining Committee Chair Phil Otis, the conversation breaks down the real work of negotiating committees, the role of polling and pilot engagement, and how trust, credibility, and strategy ultimately determine whether a pilot group succeeds in attaining a ratified agreement. 

Drawing on decades of experience across multiple carriers, Jeff and Phil explain how negotiations are built long before formal sessions begin, how MECs and committees are meant to function together, and why alignment with pilot priorities is fundamental. The discussion also addresses internal challenges pilots often see, but rarely get explained, including politics, turnover, expectations around flight pay loss, and what effective leadership looks like under the Railway Labor Act. 

“The key indicator of whether an agreement will be ratified is the faith the pilot group has in the MEC.” 
— Jeff Loesel, ALPA Managing Attorney for Collective Bargaining 

This episode is especially relevant for pilots considering service, participating in upcoming elections, or simply trying to understand why negotiations take the time they do. It offers rare insight into the responsibilities, pressures, and teamwork required to deliver a contract that holds up, not just at ratification, but for years afterward. 

If you want a clearer picture of how negotiations really work, what makes them succeed or fail, and what it means to serve the pilot group at a critical moment, this is a conversation worth hearing. 

The outgoing Frontier MEC Chairman explains why he chose to speak publicly instead of stepping down quietly, alleging the MEC has been functionally paralyzed for the past year and a half by a deliberate strategy of internal obstruction rather than normal disagreement. He recounts disputes and procedural concerns around efforts to remove a negotiator, the sudden recall of a merger committee member, an alleged rigged LEC 165 interim election excluding Dallas and Cincinnati, and criticism of productive and devoted volunteers.

Highlighting specific events and decisions that led to paralysis, he urges pilots to get involved, attend LEC meetings, and vote for change to restore a functioning MEC. 

In this vital episode of Five by Five, Jason sits down with Bill Secord, Executive Vice President of ALPA Group A, to discuss the intricacies and implications of Reduced Crew Operations (RCO). Bill provides an in-depth look at concepts such as Single Pilot Operations (SPO) and Extended Minimum Crew Operations (EMCO), and how these practices impact pilot safety, fatigue, and airline operations. The conversation also covers the role of automation and technology, current industry practices and negotiations surrounding RCO. Bill sheds light on the global efforts and opposition against reduced crew mandates, highlighting ALPA's advocacy and the role of political action committees in maintaining flight safety standards.

 

Understanding ALPA Structure, FPL, and Strategic Planning: Insights from Airline Union Leaders In this episode of Five by Five, host Captain Jason DuVernay is joined by Captain Sean Creed, Vice President–Administration/Secretary and Jade Schiewe, Executive Vice President, Group B1.

As Vice President–Administration/Secretary, Sean Creed executes the policies of the Association’s governing bodies and acts as custodian for all ALPA documents, contracts, leases, property deeds, and general records. He oversees ALPA’s membership programs and serves as an ex officio member of the Association’s Election and Ballot Certification Board.

Most recently, Creed acted as ALPA’s national resource coordinator and executive vice president–Group A for the Spirit Airlines pilots. Based in Chicago, Ill., he flies the Airbus A321. He’s been a member of ALPA’s National Strategic Planning Committee, Strategic Preparedness and Strike Committee, and the Leadership Committee. During his tenure with Spirit, he has served as both Master Executive Council (MEC) and Local Executive Council (LEC) secretary-treasurer. He was also a member of his MEC and LEC Grievance Committees.

Jade Schiewe is based in Detroit, Mich., Capt. Schiewe is a Bombardier CRJ900 pilot for Endeavor and serves as Executive Vice President, Group B1, ALPA’s National Resource Coordinator and a member of the Association’s Strategic Planning Committee and the Structure, Services, and Finance Review Committee.

In addition, Capt. Schiewe acts as his pilot group’s Master Executive Council (MEC) Chair and previously served as its MEC Secretary-Treasurer and a member of its Professional Standards and Accident Investigation committees. He was also a volunteer for the Critical Incident Response Program.

With elections around the corner we sit down to discuss the intricate workings of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA). They discuss topics such as the importance of ALPA’s bottom-up structure, the role of Local Executive Councils (LECs) and Master Executive Councils (MECs), and the significance of member participation in governance. The conversation also explores the strategic planning process, the utility of Flight Pay Loss (FPL) for union volunteers, and how ALPA supports pilot groups through efforts like the Major Contingency Fund (MCF).

Tune in to gain valuable insights into ALPA’s operations, the role of volunteers, and the ways members can get involved and make impactful contributions.

 

00:30 Introduction and Guest Introductions

01:25 Overview of ALPA 301

02:19 Understanding LEC and MEC Structures

04:30 Roles and Responsibilities of MEC Officers

10:12 Importance of Pilot Participation

14:51 Effective Communication and Representation

28:49 Strategic Planning and Committee Operations

36:35 Addressing Dysfunction and Trust Issues

37:45 Importance of Honest Conversations

38:44 Role of SWOT Analysis in Strategic Planning

40:49 Communicating with Local Members

43:08 Evolution of the Strategic Planning Process

46:01 Role of The Strategic Planning & Member Resources Department in Strategic Planning

47:54 Funding and Support for Strategic Planning

56:48 Flight Pay Loss (FPL) Explained

01:04:55 Challenges and Commitment of Volunteers

01:13:17 Call for Volunteers and Closing Remarks

 

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Hosted by Captain Jason DuVernay

The podcast episode features members of the negotiating committee discussing recent events in the negotiation process. They address the company's disappointing and long-delayed response to an economic proposal made 20 months ago and describe the logistical and substantive issues during recent bargaining sessions. The company focused on Section 11 related to training, which has been their priority. The negotiating committee critiqued the company's lack of serious engagement and unrealistic demands. They stressed the need for leadership willing to solve problems and urged pilots to participate in upcoming surveys to ensure their voices are heard. The conversation reflects ongoing frustrations and the committee's commitment to negotiating for the future of the pilots.

 

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Hosted by Captain Jason DuVernay

Learn all the details of this weekend's upcoming Family Awareness Event!

In response to the Frontier CEO's video from an airplane lavatory, an embarrassing lapse in professionalism, the Frontier pilots MEC is calling on management to address and correct a culture that prioritizes cost over quality, neglects employment empowerment, and is poorly perceived by the flying public. It is time to restore authority to captains and foster a true culture of caring and professionalism.